The odd thing about comrade Brutatowski is that he proposes nothing... adds nothing...and engages freely in worthless rhetoric. Don't believe me? Google the name and you will see that he pops up all over the place... on altra right wing sites and just spews hatred and BS. Ironically, I first met up with the guy in Reader Comments on an article in the Washington Post. Other than that, its always the right-wing, conspiracy-ridden sites. I strongly suspect Russian troll activity. At the very least, he's probably an immigrant from a former Soviet satellite country looking for a haven to spread anti-communist propaganda. He needs a strong man to hunt down the communists hiding behind every bush. A bit like 1923 Germany.... and you know how that turned out.
Actually, I've explained it so well that you don't even have a response other than name calling and profanity. How many fifth grade boys did it take to come up with that?
You haven't explained anything, ignorant pig fucker.
Wow. How...cerebral.And thus you prove why you do not have the intellect understand a simple explanation about how taxes are collected and why I had to explain both my point of view and yours.
You're a dumb ignorant pig fucker.
Ah, the brilliance of name calling. It shines like a cow patty in a cowboy's fire on the vast plain of ignorance.This is what you've got your thong in a wad about? Last I checked, people do pay taxes on those profits, and salaries. Unless Rod Serling's popped up somewhere.Good luck to you with your future podcast on economics.
"Those tax dollars, or revenue, are produced when someone creates a good or a service and sells it on the market. "
This is what you said. How does that create $, you utter numpty?
Like I said, go back and read my responses. I explained both of our points of view, you're just too inept to see it.
You haven't explained how you think the private sector gets US$ to pay the taxes.
You can't because it's the fundamental flaw in your 'thinking'.
You either suffer cognitive dissonance or you're a liar. Probably both.
Go back and read my responses. If you will do that you will see that I not only explain my point of view, but even yours. You simply do not have the intellectual acuity for this type of discussion. Continually telling someone to answer a question they've repeatedly answered is kid stuff. Now, after you've finished your grilled cheese sandwich and your chocolate milk, go back and take a look. Okay, you can finish watching teletubbies first.
You haven't answered. You can't explain how the private sector obtains $ (government issued liabilities) to pay the taxes. Because you're too intellectually limited to see anything beyond household finances.You're clearly wrong and unable to justify your irrational position/s but your too juvenile to admit it.
If I'm clueless, it's because you are contagious.I've answered the question. I've explained the answer ad nauseam. The only other thing I can do is drive over to your house and draw a picture of it on your magna doodle. Constantly telling someone to answer a question that they've already answered simply because you do not like the conclusion only works until about the time that you leave the fifth grade. Once you're an adult you should not engage in discussions that you clearly do not have the mental acumen for, unless you're making an effort to learn something.
You have NOT answered the question. And your assertions are irrational and clearly wrong.Taxes are paid with US$ that only the government can create.How do taxpayers gain the US$ that they pay their taxes with if they can only come from the US government, if they do not come from government spending?Now answer the question or admit you are clueless.
And just how many times should I answer the question? I've done it repeatedly and you still cannot comprehend the answer.This kind of idiotic garbage may fly with your friends, but just think of me as being part of the real world who has no reason to suffer fools.Let me know when your blog starts. But you have to enable commentary if you expect me to subscribe.
Answer the question.
Already did. Yes, the government is charged with the printing of money. Anyone with an IQ above a can of beets knows this ( why this one thing is so important to you, I can only hope you know). But tax revenue has to be collected from earned income. This is a complete separate entity from the printing of money, or the issuing of bonds, or the treasury secretary scratching his butt.I look forward to your weekly blog on finance and economics. Just let me know when it starts and I'll be your first subscriber.Good luck to ya', john g.
So you cannot differentiate between the printing of money and the creation of revenue and you expect me to believe all of a sudden you're knowledgeable about treasury ledgers?It's been fun.
You haven't addressed the basic point of how US$s enter existence. You are avoiding the issue and I've cut and pasted nothing.
You clearly know nothing about the subject but your tone is condescending.That makes you an arrogant ignoramus.
I've asked you the question numerous times and you've dodged answering.
"Those tax dollars, or revenue, are produced when someone creates a good or a service and sells it on the market."
Sells something for $. Where did the purchasers get those $? How did those $ enter existence?
Yeah, Schiff's an idiot.That's why he was one of the few people who predicted the financial meltdown in the real estate market years before other economists had a clue about how dangerous it was for the government to insert itself in it. Yes, the government does secure dollars through debt by issuing bonds, or t-bills, but that is a wholly separate activity than the collection of taxes that the government needs to run the government. Bonds are a way for the government to make up the shortfall in the budget. Look, copying and pasting something you were able to look up on some website will not help you understand this any better.Okay. Real slow now. Those tax dollars, or revenue, are produced when someone creates a good or a service and sells it on the market. Or when a good is imported and a tarriff is imposed. I've explained this numerous times and I'm avoiding it? How does that work in John G. land.This is really that difficult to understand? Good luck in your career as an economist. This has been fun but frightening.
The federal government creates dollars when it spends by marking up private sector bank accounts at the Fed.It destroys dollars when it taxes by marking down private sector bank accounts at the Fed.It issues 'debt' by swapping reserve $ in private bank accounts at the Fed for Treasury Bills. It redeems those T-Bills for reserves on maturity by reversing the ledger transfer.
Peter Schiff is a gold trader and an idiot.
Now answer the question that you keep avoiding.Where, in your view, does the private sector get $ (government liabilities) to pay the taxes? If, according to you, the government requires taxes to spend, where are those tax dollars being produced.I expect you will continue to avoid, evade and whine.
more name calling. How dazzling. Your friends must be amazed by them during political discussion.So you think that the way economics works in America is that the government prints money, then spreads it out into the communities, people spend it, and then the government collects the excess that's created? All I can say is WOW! Do people you know take you seriously, or do you find that they are constantly suppressing a sneeze that kinda looks like they're actually laughing?No offense, but this is why Bernie was able to run for President and throw out programs that he had previously said in interviews that we could not afford and his supporters bought it.Go read how an economy grows and why it crashes by Peter Schiff.In the meantime - Excuse me... Oh, no. I was just sneezing.
What unit of account are taxes paid in in the USA, Einstein?
The printing of currency and collection of revenue are two entirely different things. Like I said, economics 1.
Only the government can create $US. Taxes can only be paid with $US. How difficult us that to understand?
OH, golly , more imaginative name calling. If that doesn't convince me nothing will. If you are talking about the printing of money, yes, only the government has the permission to do that.If you are in fact talking about tax revenue the government has to collect that, unless the government takes over a portion of the economic system, such as natural resources, or manufacturing. The government does not "create" revenue. If you are saying that no revenue or wealth is created without the government you are putting the ass before the cart.How is this confusing? This isn't even economics 101 its economics 1.
"The "somewhere else" is from the income of the citizens."
Jesus H Christ you are one dumb ****.Where do the dollars that make up that income get created?They are paid in US$, which only the government can create.
Oh, more brilliant name calling. You are confusing the printing of money with the revenue (or money) that is collected that pays taxes. Apparently this much more difficult to understand than I would have ever expected.The "somewhere else" is from the income of the citizens. Go look at your tax forms from - Oh, excuse me, go find someone who paid taxes last year and look at their forms. Yeah, that part at the end that says what they owe or else. That's the "somewhere else".
Where is "somewhere else"? The government is the monopoly issuer of US$ you dimwit. It creates the $ that pay the taxes.This is not difficult to understand.
You've told me that government spending is where the private sector gets its dollars and I had to explain to you that this money has to be taken from somewhere else first, and other basics about banking and supply and demand. In response to that you've called me names and told me I was incapable of logic and told me to go away.You were unable to explain where I was wrong about money supply, or about Bernie.
I've explained how it works and you've proved too stupid to understand.
Then telling me where I was wrong should have been a breeze that you simply yawned through while typing with one hand and chugging down a cup of joe with the other.
Clearly you are incapable of reasoning or logic.
Oh, that's how I'm wrong. How brilliant. Now I'm totally convinced of your argument. I mean, who wouldn't be after an erudite reply like this.
You're an utter moron.
Tell me where I am wrong.
Utter nonsense. Go away.
"The federal government creates dollars by spending into the private sector."I think you forgot what we were talking about. You made the claim above and I countered with actual logic, and you veered off into counterfeiting. Yes, the government does issue currency. It does not create the dollars, or revenue it spends. It has to collect or borrow to do that. And, actually, our government spends in many different currencies, depending on the situation. That is why we hold vast amounts varying types.
Banks create credit denominated in $US but they can't create the high powered dollars that only government can issue.
Logical fallacy. You've no idea what you're talking about. We are talking about issuing currency. Government spends in $US i.e. currency.
No. It's called revenue. We're not talking about the issuing of currency. That is clearly in the government's wheel house. We're talking about where the government gets the funds to do anything, including buying printing presses to print currency. It's called taxation. If the government created revenue you would drive down the street and see "Government grocery" "Government gas station" , and on and on.Is the concept here really that difficult?
The top .1% oligarchy unites corporate wealth and federal and state politicians. Tax corporations and banks at 40%+, eliminate loopholes and foreign tax shelters, and give the money to local communities, rural counties and urban neighborhoods, for health care, public education, infrastructure, childcare, whatever they want—economic and political democracy. Pass laws to divorce corporations from politicians—eliminate corporate lobbying and campaign contributions. Bernie's heart is in the right place, but if he doesn't go bold to build a movement across racial, cultural, and geographical lines to crush the neoliberal system, he's going to fail.
What so taxpayers are creating $US? That's called counterfeiting. The government is the monopoly issuer of $.Clearly you are wrong.
So Rich people just take their money and... what? They just light cigars with it. Is this how it disappears? They don't spend it? They don't invest it? I've worked in wealthy neighborhoods. They spend money. The economy is hurt when the revenue is diverted out of it. Have you looked at the amount of money that is lost through social programs. Only around thirty five cents out of every dollar makes it back into the economy, so the idea that the government taking it helps the economy simply doesn't work.Rich people are going to keep as much of their money as they can. And you know what, so is 90% of every other human being on the planet.It is also not the job of the government to take revenge on rich people just because they are more successful than I am. The government needs to get out of the way. Make real spending cuts. Drive down our tax rate so that companies and individuals will want to put their money here as opposed to somewhere else.
Basic banking information? You mean like...Oh, where does the bank get its funds that it lends? It just creates it in a magic money machine in the basement?
Where do you think the government gets those dollars? A little thing called taxation. When they spend in the private sector they are simply taking money they've taken from one part of the private sector and moving it to another.
You are misinformed. Money is created when a bank hands out a loan. You should learn some basic banking before making these comments.
The gov't spends the money it receives in revenue. Money doesn't just go to the gov't then disappear like what happens when rich man gets money. You want to see the economy dry up? Don't tax the rich. Oh, you're already seeing that happen now aren't you? Rich people hoard money, the gov't does not. Making rich people richer doesn't increase the amount of money in circulation. A strong economy is defined by the amount of money circulating in the economy. An economy is hurt when you let a few rich people suck up and hoard the money. We have an aching economy right now. Taxing the rich and funding social programs is the only way out. The rich haven't been hiring bunches of people and giving out raises just because they can afford to. The Trickle Down Theory is a lie.
The federal government creates dollars by spending into the private sector. $ are government accounting units.
Oh, please, enlighten me. I so want to be as sophisticated and cultivated as you in financial matters.
Presidents don't fully control debt. They can influence it through bills they veto, or those they support or propose. No modern President has been able to curtail debt. That is why it is twenty trillion and still climbing, and that is just the public debt. There is a private debt that most of the public is unaware of and I've seen estimates of that from former government accounting firms of around 200 trillion, and that was a few years ago. Bernie, like 90% of career politicians is completely unable to balance the budget because he cannot bring himself to the common sense conclusion that no entity can raise its spending 10% a year and expect anything but disaster. Try raising your household spending 10% every year, regardless of whether you get a raise or not. See how that works out for you. Oh, by the way, P&L is not a duty. It is a report every business has that tells them where their money is coming and going from. I guess you forgot to follow your own advice about sitting down and blah blah blah.
You cannot explain that which you do not understand. Hmm. Still nothing on how I was wrong and more name calling. Brilliant.
Money is not created out of debt. Debt is a by product of spending money you do not have in a promise to pay it later. If a huge number of people suddenly find themselves unable to pay a debt, it can tank portions of an economy. Remember that little thing called the housing meltdown? I don't think that massive amount of debt created more money. Look at Toys r us or Sears holding. Billions in debt and your saying that created money. Meanwhile their employees are waiting to see if they're going to take it in the nuts after the first of the year.
Money comes from someone creating a good or a service and putting it on the market to sell it. Currency was created in order to make the bartering system easier to navigate. Government taxes this income and this is how it is funded. When the government becomes too overbloated, as ours has become, it has to suck more and more resources out of this currency system. The federal government does provide dollars to the private sector - an example is food stamps - but this money still has to be taken out of some other portion of the economy.Is this really difficult to understand?
He doesn't know or care, I would guess. I hope I'm wrong. All money is created out of debt, so something we should all agree on is that this is a problem. NOTHING changes until we change how money works, and change ourselves.
You're a fucking troll, go the fuck away! You Bernie Bashing Bastard!
The federal government is not an overhead cost. It's spending provides the private sector's dollars.Where, in your view of the world, do $ come from?
Why didn't 'we' listen to Bernie? First of all, Bernie is a neutered American politician, which means on a good day he should be fedalive to feral hogs. Secondly, listen?. The days are way past listeniing. Unless arms are taken up in a coordinated comprehensive guerilla war against this 100% corrupt, inverted-totalitarian, police-state government, nothing will be taking place but suicide by government!
And AI pay no taxes based on what...? OH, ignorance. An artform for which you are obviously a master. Okay. Now, go ahead and call me names because, after all, that is what is easiest and takes the fewest brain cells.
"Taxes don't fund the Federal government and Federal spending is private sector income. " ? I hope this makes sense after you clean out your bong.So the federal government needs to hire more, and spend more? I'm not sure how bloating the government and making it more expensive helps an economy. The more the government sucks out of it, the less money there is for companies to promote their products, which could create a demand and provide more jobs. We also need to remove burdens from employers, such as this crazy idea that they have to provide insurance.You are right about subsidizing wealthy corporations. We should not be doing that. But the bigger government is, the more it will happen. Look what President Obama did. Provided billions to money bundlers who were involved in failing investments. Once those billions got in their pockets, what did they do? Shutter the doors and walk away wealthy.
He was not trying to do something. He was simply using his platform to criticize the wealthy. He proposed nothing. This is simply worthless rhetoric. So once again you throw out name calling that make no sense, and cannot tell me where I was wrong.
Brutatowski : There's no truth to your statements. The only people that are completely unfit for P&L duty are republicans. Not one republican president has actually managed to curtail national debt. Only democrats. But that's only because we never had an independent as a president.
Bernie is not a democrat (not truly anyway). It makes him uniquely capable of actually balancing the budget and uniquely capable of doing the right thing.
NExt time, just sit down and shut up when you don't know what you're talking about.
That's another possibility. Either way, he should take his head from his rectum before commenting.
I doubt it. I think he's one of those 'temporarily indisposed' millionaires that America has in abundance. They worship the rich and hate the poor.
You're talking to (judging by his tripe) one of the 0.001%, paying little to no taxes and wanting to keep it that way. IMO.
Like your other dribble, ...... you're right, .... meaningless.You piss and moan about Sanders not elaborating on solutions, just demonizing the wealthy. You don't have a clue either, except for bashing him for at least trying something, while you do absolutely nothing not even what you call useless talking to the corporations. Take your Bernie bashing crap down the road.
Taxes don't fund the Federal government and Federal spending is private sector income. So, you're clueless yourself.Employers hire when there is a demand for their products. To lift demand people have to spend more. That means the Federal government needs to start employing people and spending into where it is needed. At the bottom.Subsidising already cash rich corporations is a fool's errand.As for class war, neoliberalism IS class war, buddy. Class war waged by the rich on the rest of us.
Lets see, I'm a "freaking Conservative troll" and I "pay nothing and want it to stay that way?" Not sure what it is I'm not paying. It would be interesting to know what in the heck that even means, though judging by the fact that you choose to simply call me names instead of explaining what I got wrong, tells me that an explanation would be vacuous and meaningless.
You're freaking Conservative troll! People like you are the reason this country is in the shape it's in,..... you pay nothing and want it to stay that way. Take your tripe down the road. We're tired of hearing your BS!
Thank-you Senator Sanders for continuing to place the American public and our nation as your primary focus throughout your career as our representative in our government. The corrupt politicians who constantly strive to undermine democracy while tirelessly seeking only their personal enrichment and the pursuit of deviant personal gratification in the stead of their sworn duties to a constitution they neither understand nor respect, are a problem that you are showing us how hold to account for their personal misdeeds and civil crimes. It is too bad we don't have thousands more like you keeping America focused on helping and strengthening communities throughout this great nation. God willing and through the perseverance of tens of millions of us who were awoken by the national events of the last few years, there soon will be thousands more like you elected to offices all around this nation as our revolution takes hold and expands to help America achieve the greatness our nation has aspired to since its founding but failed to achieve because of small-minded, petty spirited people of a greedy and selfish nature. The memorials we will erect to your memory will be built out of the blood, sweat and tears we shed to rebuild and enhance this nation as we strive to become once again the nation which assists, embraces, and inspires the rest of the world to follow the path we carve, rather being burdened with the international rejection and derision we deservedly engender currently.
There's very good reason we didn't listen to Bernie. He's a guy who has been devoid of a real job for most of his life and wouldn't be able to read a p&l statement at gunpoint. If he's so concerned about funding the government he could start by proposing that everyone on the hill take a ten percent decrease in salary and tie it to the national average of non-government workers, meaning that if we don't get a raise, neither do they. He could propose some real spending cuts - not these idiotic cuts in the increase. If he needs some ideas on where to cut, he could just google waste book. If, in fact, he knows how to use google. Part of the reason so many live in poverty is that we have this monster of big government whose appetite only increases. We also have no incentives for employers to offer full time positions. He should go through each and every regulation heaped on to employers and see which we could get rid of. Instead of going to speak to employers about what would encourage them to hire more - because, lets face it, that would be too much like having a real job and coming up with a real solution - he stands on the floor of the Senate and blathers with this class warfare nonsense. This is why we don't listen to him. He has no solution, other than to demonize the wealthy.
A Revived Poor People’s Campaign Calls for a “Revolution of American Values”